My first 357 sig purchase was a LEO trade in Glock 31 that I still own. Hence, the 9mm was their “first hope” for a superior man-stopper bullet, and the 10mm became the “second hope”. If I want a “+P” 357 Sig I can purchase Underwood’s loading of Gold Dot which hits 1510 FPS. i want a gun that is fun to shot and doesn't kill you with a lot of recoil, but has the stopping power. In case you have never heard of the .357Sig, The Sig Sauer Firearms Company was asked back in 1994 by Federal to collaborate on a hot new cartridge that rivaled the venerable .357 Magnum in ballistics. And for all the people who keep saying with today’s new bullet technology and new powders the 9MM is now better and faster, well guess what that same bullet technology and new powders also went into making the 40 SW, 357SIG and the 45ACP also a better round. The .357 Mag’s origins begin in the early 1930’s where the police force was in desperate need of a better terminal performing handgun load. Trajectories change a lot on glass, and with the supports inside a car door, 9mm and .40 can be stopped dead in its tracks. But if your Shield is a 4-inch then it might be worth trying. They are all 35 caliber but the difference is muzzle velocity and only muzzle velocity. If you read the entirety of my article (I’m assuming you didn’t — otherwise you wouldn’t have taken too much time typing your long anti-9mm rhetoric), you’ll know that I don’t like the 9mm. I’m one of the odd ones out. The odds of myself having to fire on, more so through a car door or windshield , vs the average person is pretty large. It is nonsensical to say that 9mm is “much better” than 380 and then make the argument that 9mm is “just as good” as 357 Sig or Mag. In turn, out of guns of equal weight the.380 produces nearly half the recoil energy. Now look at the average velocity of an admittedly smaller assortment of .357 Sig ammo using bullets of the same weight. Although we all have our “comfort” caliber, I could not agree more with your assessment. In my opinion 357 sig has a slightly stronger recoil impulse than 40s&w and 45acp. Maybe at some local gunstores. In that same year the Smith & Wesson Registered Magnum (M27) was born. by Wiley Clapp - That does not make it a better cartridge. The best way to examine any potential differences in power between the 9mm and .357 SIG is by comparing ballistics gel testing data. I also noticed that you mentioned Underwood 9mm. Love the caliber. COVID-19 showed us that a sudden spike in demand for even the most mainstream and mass-produced types of cartridges, is still all it takes to create a shortage of said cartridge. I’d argue that these lack power, which is what 357sig does best. Our handguns are our secondary weapons not our primary. So what was still available? Heavier 147-grain JHPs are becoming more popular. To me, if the shoe fits, wear it. They make some good 9mm loads, but they make even better 357 Sig. It might have a little more snap to it and alot more muzzle flash compared to 9mm you'll definitely feel alot more recoil. You just earned your self a NEW fan. As stated, the recoil is roughly similar to the .40 S&W, but certainly less than the … Me personally I have thinned out my heard of 9mm pistols in favor of a few 357sig pistols. The cartridge holds a bullet the same diameter as the 9mm (.355”) but in a smaller case with diminished capacity (roughly speaking, 15% less than the 9mm in grains of H2O). Now that we’ve covered some background information on .357 SIG vs .40 S&W, let’s dive into a side by side comparison of these two calibers. I’m cracking up on the heartburn/indigestion bit, lol. This Site Might Help You. Also you assumed some thing he didn’t infer, nothing in his remark indicates he thought the 357 SIG came before the 40. 17 Okt 2016 #4. Budget always controls preferences in the field. Wednesday, November 13, 2013. Just look at how now there a making 45acp + p rounds and 40SW rounds going 50-75 FPS faster and that’s something that was never heard of ten years ago. Even the extremely hot 9mm +P+ with the same bullet weight runs about 150 feet per second slower than just the standard .357 SIG load. To say the .357 was trying to fix a non-existant problem is innacurate. Your email address will not be published. I'm looking at buying my first handgun and was able to shot the smith and wesson m&p 9mm and liked it. And I have nothing against people who like the cartridge. @Amado Garcia, thank you for the kind words. Source(s): https://shorte.im/bbf5f. Then there’s its sister and mother cartridges the .40 S&W and 10mm respectively, the magazines for which will fit the same number of rounds — the .40 being one of the three most common handgun calibers in the world (which the .357 SIG really should have rendered obsolete were it destined for greatness), there’s just no hope for the .357 SIG as far as popularity in the foreseeable future. It’ll only be a matter of whether the owner would be okay with reaming the barrel’s chamber to accept 9×23 Winchester or just sticking with .38 Super. 5.7x28mm VS 9mm Recoil Impulse. Not sure if you’re still monitoring this discussion any longer but regardless, I think this is a good comparison article except for one point. And don’t even get me started on the 960 Rowland. Your comment made my day. Again, for 3 seasons in urban areas I carry one of my 9mm but the .357 sig absolutely has a place in the gun world especially where power, accuracy and penetration come into play. this leaves guns like the 10mm glock 20’s, they are bigger, breach face is still 40/357/10mm brass sized, too large for extraction 100% of the time, mag lips are an issue. This will be a very subjective comparison based on my own logic and experience, and my opinions do not reflect those of the other contributing authors of Gun News Daily. Its tapered brass that can withstand a SAAMI pressure limit of 35,000 psi (241 MPa) is quite tiny and allows for typical single-stack magazines designed for its arguably biggest rival, the .45 acp, to hold up to 22% more ammo. I’ve had zero issues locating HSTs, Gold Dots, various brands of FMJ, reloads, etc. I came across your article a little late, since we’re now at the end of April. But, just as rifle cartridges that come out and are superior, sometimes far superior to 5.56mm and .308, they can rarely break into mainstream because the world is flooded with 5.56, .308 and 9mm. At least one of our folks here works for an agency that prohibits any bullet bigger than 9mm/357. Nice article. How hard does the 5.7x28mm kick compared to the 9mm? Thanks for the comment Michael, can’t agree more on everything you said. If you ask me, the sad, unfortunate, story leading to the inevitable demise of the .357 SIG came just a little too prematurely. Our practice of head shots became a training focus afterwards whereas before we were trained center mass. P320 Sub Compact SC Recoil Guide Rod Spring Assembly 9mm, 40S&W, 357 Sig, 3.6" All these calibers rival and some even exceed the .357 SIG as far as ballistics, but these having thinner casing means there’s room for more rounds in the mag. IIRC the .357 SIG was designed to be fired from barrels around 4 inches in length or longer — though it’s still faster than any 9mm load I know when fired from a 3-inch, I really don’t see the point. They looked at the 10mm and accepted a bullet redesigned as the .40 S&W. Is it more expensive? In other words the typical 125-grain JHP load travels 250 fps faster in a 357 Sig than in a 9 mm Luger. I’d love to have a subcompact semi-auto in .357 SIG. I think carrying typical 125-grain .357 SIG loads is pushing it — I can be wrong as I’ve never had to shoot a bear before, but in such scenarios it’s better to err on the safe side. The .357 SIG pushes a 125-grain bullet out of a 4.5 inch barrel at velocities reaching up to 1,450 feet per second. But a typical pistol will hold a few less of them than a comparable-sized 9 mm auto. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTTDgZZZFa0, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4DsaBrohV0. I have one problem though and I see it in almost every pro/con evaluation of the .357 sig. .357 Sig was out of the running. I would recommend getting a Glock 23 and getting a .357 SIG conversion or better yet, get a Glock 32 and don’t bother converting it to .40 S&W. Why, if that were the case, then I say we get rid of all types of ammo save the almighty .50 BMG, gather them and burn them all. As Sylvester Stallone so eloquently put it in Rocky VI, “The world ain’t all sunshine and rainbows!” This is the sad truth, and doubly more so in the case of the .357 SIG. ? BUT the straight case design of these two calibers makes the cartridges ~6.2% thinner, allowing for one to two additional rounds in the mag. Bright muzzle flash can be disastrous, as it will cause a shooter’s vision to deacclimate to low light. In the 147-grain bullets, the 9 mm drives bullets to about 1,000 fps, while the .357 Sig does about 1,225, some 125 fps faster. These are pretty subjective matters, which prompts the observation that if you can handle the .357 Sig, it is an automatic pistol cartridge that wildly out-performs the 9 mm Luger and even equals the legendary .357 Mag.-when the latter is using 125-grain bullets. Was wiederum beweist: Treffen ist das beste Kaliber Gesendet von meinem D5803 mit Tapatalk . @ThePersonalProtectionSpecialist Everyone says the .357 sig is a 9mm on steroids. It can send a same-size, same-weight bullet flying at much faster velocities which results to better terminal ballistics. When you crunch the numbers through the formula that calculates kinetic energy, the 9 mm gets approximately 336 ft.-lbs. Now we all know an extra 200-300fps can flatten the trajectory of a round through glass, it can also give the extra umph needed to punch through a pesky folded steel door support. I purchased a G31 to replace the 357 Mag I used as a truck/woods gun and would point out that my 357 Sig plinking loaf is 1350 FPS while my self defense loads hits 1380 FPS. ? What is the point of this cartridge?” He’s not the first person to ask that question. Please do check out my other articles here at GND. LMAO! either online or at gunshows here in gun friendliest state in the nation – California! Capable of good velocities, particularly with lighter bullets, the 9 mm cartridge is made for dozens of pistol designs. The 9mm loaded to the extremes can produce similar (albeit a little lower) bullet velocities, case in point Underwood’s 9mm LUGER +P+ which can push a 124-grain bullet out of a 5-inch barrel with velocity at the muzzle of 1,300 feet per second. If you look at this link http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/357sig.html you’ll see that there’s around ~200 fps difference in muzzle velocities when firing any of the specified .357 SIG loads from a 3-inch and a 5-inch. You need a oal of 1.2 in for those to be at there peak power. LOL! Tardy to the party but I’ll toss in my 2 cents. .357 SIG vs .40 S&W. First used by the German Navy in 1904, the 9 mm Luger (or Parabellum, etc.) While SIG Sauer certainly accomplished this amazing feat in a semi-auto, the .357 magnum with its longer brass can be hot-loaded to unreachable levels, e.g. Would I pick the .45 acp because I’ve always been in love with it, and that most 1911s chambered for it can be converted to the mighty .460 Rowland with just a swap of barrels and recoil springs? So, yeah, the 9mm +P velocity is comparable to 357 Sig or Mag but only when comparing it to the most anemic 357 loading you can find. 357 Sig Vs 9mm. Privacy Policy   •   Contact Us   •   Warnings   •   FAQs   •  © 2021 National Rifle Association of America, Women On Target® Instructional Shooting Clinics, Volunteer At The Great American Outdoor Show, Marion P. Hammer Women Of Distinction Award, Women's Wildlife Management / Conservation Scholarship, National Youth Shooting Sports Ambassadors, NRA Outstanding Achievement Youth Award Presented by Brownells, National Youth Shooting Sports Cooperative Program, Marlin Model 1895: Top-Selling Lever-Action Rifle of 2020, Colt's Model 1855 Revolving Rifle in the Civil War. Before the first round of testing everyone wanted to see the 45 go first, then the 40 then the 9 then me. That’s what matters most for me. I’d also point out that the 9 has less recoil and far less muzzle blast, two factors which positively lend to the most important factor, accuracy. To each their own. My background is a swat police officer in a major US city for clarification. We chronied our guns (mine was SIG P229, 3.9″ Bbl 125gr at 1365 FPS) then took turns at shooting a ballistic dummy wearing body armor. These issues have formed a vicious cycle:  ammo availability/reloading issues cause frustration which causes bad rep, which in turn diminishes demand, which then pushes suppliers to sell their stock ammo at a loss, which then results to some manufacturers limiting/stopping ammo manufacture. That was back in the old days way before 10mm, 40S&W and 357SIG were developed and I was involved in taking care of shootout victims usually in “drug deals gone bad” – AKA victims of LEO including State Patrol, DEA, etc. Thanks for taking the time to read the article. Still, the 9 mm has some advantages in easier shooting and training, as well as lower cost and longer gun life. The bean counters had a hissy over the cost of 10mm and convinced command to go to .45 Glock 21SF with Golden Sabres and a +P. What’s the barrel length on your S&W Shield? The high-pressure rating of the brass can also push the typical 115-grain .355 caliber projectile out of a 4.65-inch barrel with muzzle velocities of up to 1,180 feet per second. Why? Many shooters mention the 357 Sig muzzle flash is especially bright for a pistol load. “To use the logic that 9mm is as good as the .357 Sig is the same as saying the .38 Special is as good as the .357 Magnum.” The .357 Sig was desigend to address a very real problem, the problem of a non-ezistant handgun cartridge that is a very effective manstopper in all cases, conditions and situations. If your Shield is a 3-inch I would say just get a different pistol that has a 4-inch or a 5-inch barrel if you want to maximize your gains (because unless it’s just for novelty’s sake I simply don’t see any practical reason to get a .357 SIG conversion for a 3-inch barrel when you already have the gun chambered for .40 S&W). A lot has to do with where I’m going and doing. What came from these modifications is the round that is still in use today, the .357 Mag.The .357 Mag was a handgun cartridge that provided unrivaled velocity and terminal ballistic performance at the time. Thanks, glad you liked the article. The company I purchased from also had a .357sig barrel. Control and accuracy. So, is more muzzle velocity better or is it not? Colder weather or woods carry it’s always a .357 sig. After research I determined that if I ever had to defend myself I would want the upper hand. I’ve been a Armed Security patrol officer for over a decade, carried everything from Sig p220s, 226s, 229s, Hk USPs, M9s, old steel 3rd gen Smith’s and every caliber from 9mm to .45ACP including the failed .45GAP. Which, in turn, led to an increase in sales of guns and barrels chambered for that round. It wasn’t uncommon to dig out bullets varying in power including 357 Mag, 45ACP 44 Mag and a few 9mm. You might also favor a .38 Special for times when the frame or component parts of the gun are not compatible with +P or Magnum loads, so you can shoot standard ammunition. I’m sure all of you (and maybe a few of you participated too) had noticed that 9mm rounds were being gobbled up like tiny white marbles in a frantic game of hungry hungry hippos. Most agencies in our areas had the Glock 22 / .40 so we were told to accept the .45+p Further on ballistics, the .357 SIG’s isn’t the only hard-hitting .355-inch bullet in the market. 6 rounds of .357 mag or 16 of .357 sig? I own a S&W shield in .40. With greater case capacity of modern powders, the .357 Sig is a very hot number. I think that adequate capacity of more effective 40s renders the 9 mm’s advantage in both capacity and velocity a very moot point. 357 Sig is a great cartridge, but even with higher velocities and muzzle energy, it’s still a handgun and it doesn’t stop bad guys any better than the .40, 9mm or 45 ACP. 17 Okt 2016 #4. Since 2001, we have provided the latest in gun rights news, tech reviews and product information. I totally agree my friend. I haven’t updated this article in a while but maybe I will soon. The powder gasses weigh roughly what the unburned powder does. Looking at the 7.65x21mm’s and the 9x19mm’s ballistics performance, it’s obvious that the former is superior. Would I settle for the .380 acp which, with its really low SAAMI pressure limit, shouldn’t be to difficult to build a gun for as I could just use junk metal pipes? We discussed the .357 Sig but yet again, too costly on the Ammo. It just so happened that of the two, the 9mm is more accessible and more available because of better pricing and worldwide popularity, not to mention I’d personally choose the 9×23 Winchester (or even the .38 Super) over the .357 SIG — same power, more ammo in the mag. But well under 10mm I own a glock in both 357 sig and 40 when going from one right to the other the strength of the recoil impulse is about the same the 357 sigs recoil … In a perfect world where money is never going to be an issue, I’d tell anyone who asks for a recommendation to buy any handgun chambered for this round if only to give it the chance it deserves. As far as the barrier/glass penetration bit and all other things you mentioned, I can’t agree more. There are pros and cons to both cartridges, as well as the .40 S&W, the .45 ACP, the 10mm, the .38 super, etc. I think as a concept, it works great. Inescapably, the .357 Sig is a much more powerful cartridge. For me the .357Sig advantage was always vehicle penetration. In the 9-to-40 comparison, we have a smaller, lighter bullet versus a slower, heavier one. I guess this has to be the only exception (only downside is it costs an arm and a leg): From the .38 special, modifications began to be made by Phil Sharpe, Elmer Keith, and eventually the guys at Smith & Wesson. In the real world, in service grade handguns, the .357 Magnum outstrips not only the 9mm but the .357 SIG and .38 Super as well. Back in those days, hollow points for use in handguns would have been very difficult to mass-produce for war; Even if hollow points for handguns were easier to mass-produce. I can only assume Georg was tasked to redesign the 7.65x21mm and come up with the 9x19mm because of a few possible reasons: Since its introduction in 1902, the 9x19mm Parabellum, now more commonly referred to everywhere as the 9mm, has enjoyed a well-deserved reputation. It’s just too easy. Or would I pick the .357 SIG because… I don’t know, maybe the holocaust would leave me a little messed up in the brain and I wouldn’t mind picking it because… aargh! Stay safe and best wishes to you and my apologies for not responding sooner. Yep, to each their own. Cheers! A cartridge that had less recoil than .357 Magnum Once the bullets have been removed that’s when they know. Only time will tell if it would gain the kind of resurgence in popularity the 10mm is enjoying now — both of us can only hope. Not that I ever want to be in a gunfight. Anonymous. Life isn’t ever going to be that easy though, and superior ballistics doesn’t necessarily mean a particular cartridge/caliber is better than another. But its biggest Achilles’ heel being it can be expensive/difficult to come by/hard to handload in my opinion makes it inferior than the readily available but ballistically weaker 9mm. I love my Taurus 689 in .357 magnum. Anyway, thank you for the reply and a great article. The new cartridge was designed to be used for semi-auto pistols because of the platform’s inherent advantages over revolvers: In 1994, it was introduced as the .357 SIG. To use the logic that 9mm is as good as the .357 Sig is the same as saying the .38 Special is as good as the .357 Magnum. Handgun Recoil Table By Chuck Hawks . @JD Donham No question, the caliber wars will continue as long as firearms are being used. I believe the 9mm is the best carry caliber for most folk because, just as the FBI report stated, most are too recoil sensitive for anything more powerful (from 10mm to 40 Cal to 9mm). It’s simply easier. I like that u attempt to prevent the continuation of the never ending caliber wars. I read an article from a trauma surgeon and he’s seen people killed with a single .22 caliber bullet and he’s also seen guys shot with a 10mm that ran away. Going to many gun shows and speaking with many ex LEO and FBI that loved the rounds it was obvious that politics pushed the 10mm 40SW and .357 sig to the side. 38 super is also a great round, but I’ve only shot it and never owned one. And the G42 is smaller and lighter than the G19 so why bother; right? Handgun Caliber Showdown Round 1: 9mm vs .357 SIG. I wish there could be more odd ones like yourself — then maybe the .357 SIG would get the popularity it deserves. However, the highest-cost for the 9mm Luger was $1.95, while the highest per-round price for.357 Magnum was $1.90. Scant amounts of .40S&W, .45 ACP, and a relatively available amount of the obscure and much maligned .357 SIG. Gotta love ’em SIGs. Show me a mid sized gun that can chamber a 38 super or 9×23, the 20111’s STI style guns are HUGE. Nearly all my carry guns have fixed sights and at 15-20 yard targets, the 40 cal bullets drop up to an inch lower than the 357 Sig rounds. Yet the site states "The numbers calculated here do not relate to "felt recoil." My point is that I trust the cartridge, it does what 9mm does, but better, minus a little recoil and mag capacity. So rather than offering better training for their officers and agents (which they do need) with the 40SW and 357 sig both which they all said was a much better and more powerful round at taking down people especially the 357 sig when loaded to where it originally was supposed to be (which originally was 1,450 + feet per second) for a 125 GR bullet and it still out performs any 9mm +p or +P+ round) and even after being watered down by ammo companies to 1350-1375 the 357 sig still out performed any 9mm +p and +P+ round that they the FBI and LEO had and they still opted to go with the less powerful 9mm which is under gunning there officers to a less lethal round. The Great Ammo Shortage of 2020: When Will It End? Actually one of the original design criteria’s for the 5.7x28mm was to reduce the recoil impulse compared to the 9mm NATO. The SIG round is the only real option they have to getting a little more power in a pistol. Is ammo readily available?. Unfortunately that’s the only thing it has going for it. Maybe if I compare the most common handgun calibers two at a time and record all my thoughts, I’d be able to figure out what the answer to the above question is.
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