6. Is it correct to harm someone, even though that person is bad? While Cephalus’s opinion of justice was pious, entirely reliant upon the gods, Polemarchus’s view is amoral. 2. then defend his definition against this criticism? 4. Or, in other words, it is an injustice system. To Polemarchus, justice is an art -the art of war. Polemarchus simply states that Simonides believes that justice is when you give back what you’ve taken from someone. What, if anything, do you think this shows about Polemarchus’ way of understanding justice? It is worth noting, as we wind down this chapter, how Socrates seeks to preserve the moral authority of the poet Simonides, to whose definition Polemarchus appealed when entering the conversation. I fear, said Cephalus, that I must go now, for I have to look after the sacrifices, and I hand over the Socrates observes that people make mistakes, thinking an enemy a friend and vice versa, thus the just man could unintentionally help enemies and harm friends. Change ), You are commenting using your Twitter account. Polemarchus carries on his father's argument. But there are very few people, if any, would be able to determine what kinds of things and what amounts of things, like private property, will be good for people. Socrates, however, evidently thinks something is off about Simonides’ definition of justice. How does Thrasymachus Socrates acknowledges that Simonides is a smart man, but he still does not understand his reasoning. In other words not all debts paid to other people are good. A man is made worse when he does an injustice, therefore it can't be just to harm another person, including their enemies. Simonides, then, after the manner of poets, would seem to have spoken darkly of the nature of justice; for he really meant to say that justice is the giving to each man what is proper to him, and this he termed a debt. What problem does Socrates see in Polemarchus's definition of Monday, Feb 12 - pp.149-146, 177-193 (474b-480a, It is the only opinion of justice, of the three opinions stated in Book I, which is bookended by Socrates praising the poets as “wise men”. Cephalus Represents. justice, according to Polemarchus' definition, appears to be the craft of keepers of things not in use namely money and property, and because good keepers are in a position to be the best thieves, one may conclude that justice is simultaneously an art of guarding and an art of stealing. Is Polemarchus's definition of justice, derived from the poet Simonides, an improvement over the preceding definition (332)? (He also says that the poet Simonides also agrees with that) At this Socrates says that if you borrow weapons from a sane person, it would not be just to return it back to him if he has lost his mind. To be human is to have friends and enemies. When Cephalus departs to attend to the sacrifices, Polemarchus becomes the "heir of the argument", as the rightful heir to Cephalus's substance, and he defends Simonides's interpretation of justice -that it is just to give to each what is owed. Summary and Analysis Book I: Section I Summary. define justice? (338c), 9. Finally, Socrates and Polemarchus agree that justice can only be a benefit, never harm. On Stephen Greenblatt’s “Will in the World”, Reflections On Aristotle’s Prime Unmoved Mover, The Tudors: Henry VIII & The English Reformation (1509-1547). I fear, said Cephalus, that I must go now, for I have to look after the sacrifices, and I hand over the argument to Polemarchus and the company. But in some cases men make bad decisions with things that are owed to them, and most make bad decisions with their private property. Does he have a valid point? to lead Polemarchus to some absurd conclusions (at 333e and 334b). But unlike his father he is not concerned with the role of justice in religious matters. ( Log Out /  How does Thrasymachus complaint about the way Socrates has been conducting the discussion? This claim is soon followed up by Polemarchus, who uses the lyric poet Simonides as a springboard to assert justice is the practice of benefiting one's friends and harming one's enemies. How does Polemarchus define friends? The Pursuit of Justice in Plato's Republic Abstract Anasfasios ladikos University of South Africa The pursUl~ of iustice in the Republic commences when the elderly, wea/thy Cephalus suggests that iustice involves nothing more than telling the truth and repaying one's debts. then defend his definition against this criticism? How does he then clarify Polemarchus replies that Simonides simply said that justice is when you give people what you owe them. He continues: …the different forms of government make laws democratical, aristocratical, … Socrates then proceeds (340d-341a), How does Socrates get (341c-342b), How does he then argue what his definition means? Indeed, according to that system, justice is what Polemarchus thinks the poet Simonides says it is: "To do good to friends and evil to enemies" (332d). (331c‑d), 3. The key to unraveling his opinion, is to distinguish between seeming friends and enemies -as human beings are prone err.
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